Artoonix Forum

[KayNine]

I recently posted some descriptions of problems that I occasionally encountered with imported objects being assigned different names.

http://www.artoonix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1732

By the time Andrei asked for some examples, I'd already deleted all the project files (which I always do after the final rendering).

I then tried to deliberately cause the same problem but couldn't do it --- then, when working on 'Singularity' I was aware that it was happening again, but the project was so difficult and complex that I didn't want to stop to try to figure out why. But an idea did occur to me ....

I have just run another 2-frame test and identified what can cause the problem. The solution is also very easy.

When a new frame is created, Artoonix automatically generates a blank 'Painted object' which can be used for drawing or pasting into. If you choose to paste an object via the objects column you will either get a new object with the name of the image, or you will get 'Painted object 1'.

I suddenly realised that when I'm working on a sequence where there are a lot of objects which can fill or even overflow the 'Objects' column, I sometimes delete the blank 'Painted object' ---- and THAT's what can cause the problem.

I ran this simple test ....
I started a new project with a blank 'Painted object'.
I then pasted in an image of a bookworm and this was assigned the name 'Painted object 1'.

I thern created a new frame but immediately deleted the new, blank 'Painted object' that was automatically generated.
I pasted in the bookworm and - hey presto - it was automatically named 'Painted object'.

I now had two frames in which the bookworm had been assigned two different names.

It looks as if I was experiencing these problems because a lot of my projects can involve a lot of images per frame, which is why I was deleting the blank 'Painted object'. Anyone who just draws into that object or who only imports one or two images, probably won't have ever needed to get rid of the blank object.

The solution is simple - leave the blank 'Painted object' alone. Maybe move it to the back (and thus to the bottom of the object list) if necessary - but once you start deleting it here and there, you probably risk some sort of domino effect in which new un-named imports can be assigned names that have already been used for different objects elsewhere in your project. That's what happened in my 2-frame test with just one object.

[youri]

hmm, interesting issue, thanks, we will look into it to make sure it's solved in the next release. Thanks for the intermediate solution, btw.

cheers,
youri
_________________
Artoonix man

[KayNine]

As I explained, I think this problem is one that will only be found by people who use so many objects in a frame that they delete the blank 'Painted object' simply to simplify the dispay in the 'Objects' column.

Also, anyone who draws their objects will almost certainly use the automatically generated blank object for that purpose.

Artoonix is a VERY stable program with no functions that fail to work - well, none that I can find. This is a testament to your excellent testing systems before each new upgrade - so I'm not even sure that the problem I found is even truly a fault and the solution I suggested would seem to cure it anyway.

[KayNine]

I've had another thought on this topic.

My latest project ('ArtooniXmas 2009') also uses lots of layers during some sections. Because I often work by making the basic animation and then going backwards and forwards to add additional details, and mini-sequences of different lengths etc. I frequently run into the problem of having the same object being given 2 or more names when being imported as ipa files.

For instance, in 'Xmas' I imported a sequence which, during the span of 180 frames into which it was imported, it was named as Painted Object 6, 7 and 8, depending upon whether those frames already contained objects with those names. If I subsequently need to delete an imported sequence or adjust it's starting or ending position, it becomes VERY hard to do this if I'm already beyond the point of being able to simply use Undo.

It seems to be the case that Artoonix uses some sort of re-set system so that new imports are assigned a'Painted Object' number that is the lowest possible. Could it not assign numbers on an incremental scale so that once it had used, say, 'Painted Object 7' it could not do that again during the entire span of that project?

[natartoonixtweener]

i usually animate objects and change them and forget about the painted boject sometimes so i either delete it or draw a object on it. does that count?

[KayNine]

The problem only happens if you import layers of sequences previously saved as sets of .ipa files and layer them one on top of the other.

If you work in Artoonix on a frame-by-frame basis, you'll never encounter the problem. My most complex animations can sometimes have over 20 layers in some sections which is why I really started to notice the difficulties.

[youri]

K9,
The most ideal way to treat the objects - give them unique names as soon as you create them: for instance "Xmas Background" and "Xmas Tree" would do nicely this time of the year . This way you will never have any issues with import/export. If you don't have that, Artoonix will be forced (and it seems to me more than logical) to add numbers to the "duplicate" object to keep it unique within the frame..
cheers,
youri
_________________
Artoonix man

[KayNine]

What I think I'll do (partly for my own reference and also as a breakdown for other users) is to run some tests to identify and describe the different ways to create exported sequences for importation as layers - some methods produce the effects that I've deescribed and others, I know, allow you to import objects that have names but I must admit that I've never actually itemised which ways result in what outcomes.

UPDATE -----------------------------------------------------------

OK, I started to make a demo/tutorial movie but just couldn't find a way to explain things simply on the screen - so what I'll probably do is to either develop my own solution to the problem that I keep having (I think I can see how to do it) and make a demo of just that, or I'll leave the idea of an upload because I don't see much evidence of other Artoonix users making a lot of use of the export/import function ..... which is a shame, because it's REALLY useful and powerful as a way of developing layers.