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File size management

 
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ev



Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 54
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:18 pm    Post subject: File size management Reply with quote
Hey guys,
does it reduce the file size to paintakingly go through each frame at the end-just before creating a movie- and merging all objects? Kay Nine ,you are dealing with some pretty large files, any tips would be appreciated....
maybe this should be in the tips section(?)
I know in other programs like Photoshop it does not always translate into a smaller file as all commands are "saved"- I also ran into this with Artoonix when trying to reduce a file size ( for the gallery) by cutting off frames- and it made it bigger! ( or am I dreaming?)
EV
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andrei
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 103
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The video codec does a main part of work for movie compressing. Most of the codecs allow to regulate bitrate for the produced movie, so we have then - more bitrate leads to more file size and quality of video, and vice versa. The primary video content (the frames in Artoonix project) has influence to actual result but much less then the codec's settings.

It's slightly easy for the codec to do its work if content of the frames stays static for a long time (static scene) and/or has limited set of colors (or halftones).
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ev



Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 54
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: file management Reply with quote
Thanx Andrei,
Will have to do some tests on the codec stuff- as it is, the large file I recently finished (snowfall) really formed up quite nicely as a .avi file for You Tube- and opens really perfectly for me every time- with no "halting/catching up" in the middle of the video, as many many videos I see do...
it just took 11 hours to download! But even that went without a hitch
(was I lucky?)

so I guess there is really no issue, just woried about working with really big files toward the end of the project...

You have a great product here that works amazingly well even when pressed to the limit! I can't wait to see what "improvements" you are coming up with!
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KayNine



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 874
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
It would be interesting to test your idea anyway.

What you could do is this ---

(1) make a copy of one of your early or test animations where some or all frames contain several objects.
(2) Render the original.
(3) Use 'Multi-frame Operations' on all the frames in the copy and choose 'Merge Objects'.
(4) Select ALL the objects that appear after the frames have been scanned.
(5) Merge them (this will work on each frame and not create a composite mess)
(6) Exit and render and compare the size of the two movies.
(7) You could also easily compare the sizes of the two project files as well.

But DO work with a copy because once you exit right out after merging, you'd not be able to undo the merge.

I can't test this very easily at the moment as I'm not working with any animations and, as usual, I've deleted all my project files after rendering them to an avi.

Andrei's answer suggests that there won't be much difference, but it could be an interesting experiment to try over a cup of coffee.
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ev



Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 54
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: File Management Reply with quote
Hey,
thanx for that KayNine- sound like a good experiment-and methodology.
You are bold to delete your working files once you created your movies!
I suspect it is your way of staying "fresh" with your ideas-as you have said before- how you prefer not to repeat...
I am too much of a pack rat...I keep everything on an external drive and have no reservations about mining for old goodies!
You know you can get a 1TB Drive for $100 US-I have more storage capacity than I could possibly use. ( For now- I guess!). And I always make MULTIPLE copies since I lost some stuff in the early days!
Enjoy your evening, the weather finally broke here in NYC, and it is early spring!
EV
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KayNine



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 874
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: File Management Reply with quote
ev wrote:
I suspect it is your way of staying "fresh" with your ideas-as you have said before- how you prefer not to repeat.

Exactly.

Before I started to do this, I did occasionally re-use elements or sequences, but I found that each new animation taught me something new, so I generally preferred to try that next time.

What I do sometimes now do is to keep individual frames. For instance, a long time ago, I demo'd how to make a character out of a clipart image of a jointed puppet. That took ages to create and I've kept one frame of the final character so that if I ever wanted to, I could use it as a starting point for something new. I have also kept the sequence of frames in which the pages of a book turn over. That came from an animated gif and I have re-used that in a few projects.

At the moment, the only significant file that I keep is the opening section for my mini-series of tributes to the guitar shop .... but most of that is a screen capture anyway, over which I add text.

But by and large, I delete well over 95% of my project files once I have a render that works.

At the moment the only work I'm doing with Artoonix is the making of those occasional guitar-shop tributes. What little time I have at the moment for animation is taken up with trying to get my head around ToonBoom v4.5 Boy that's tricky, but at least the copy I'm using didn't cost me anything and I've managed to track down a PDF of the official manual ..... even so, I reckon it will be headaches-a-plenty for a significant portion of the coming months!
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ev



Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 54
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: File Management Reply with quote
Thanx Alan,
My personal goals are to develop better movie-making skills -
and finding that "accessible" program that will integrate movie clips and video with 'toons -the ones I have are either too complicated (Adobe) or too basic ( pretty much home movie editors) so I am still looking.
I am totally Microsoft , and my buddies have Macs that seem to be more user friendly with these grafix related things, but for now, thats where I have "invested".
Also I would like to create cartoon figures, as I attempted with my "pixie" in the Snowfall video. Not that easy with Artoonix, but "doable".
Three dimensional "turning" is the ultimate chalenge! I am trying something now with my next video...
I have seen some other programs, not quite ready to make that jump!
EV
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KayNine



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 874
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: File Management Reply with quote
ev wrote:
finding that "accessible" program that will integrate movie clips and video with 'toons -so I am still looking.

PeterUK56 experimented with this idea quite a bit a little while ago. He's now moved on to using figures imported from other sources and although he doesn't upload a lot, his work has been very experimental and interesting. Here's one of his website areas. Scan down the page to find his 'Elf' experiments. He's very approachable if you have any queries, although he does a lot of other things and may take a while to respond.
http://sites.google.com/site/peterstoons/

Quote:
I would like to create cartoon figures

Ditto. It's the area that I really want to get into. Being a poor artist, I rarely draw my characters and have had to find alternative methods.
I've uploaded a lot of demos about how to use sliced-and-diced clipart to do this but the problem of having no way to pin or use bones has always been Artoonix's main and unresolved weakness, and is why I keep looking for an equally intuitive alternative -----

Quote:
I have seen some other programs, not quite ready to make that jump!

----- which has brought me to ToonBoom v4.5 which I acquired free, and which DOES let you integrate pretty well all the main styles of animation and also to work with imported movies and to use pins or bones, but as for being intuitive ..... no way José. I have looked at some good stickfigure programs recently which let you create animated sequences that could be imported in Artoonix if you so wished. One in particular is useful, but in the end all you have is a stickman (although it was VERY useful for animating a tree being blown by wind). Another stick-based program offers the chance to create more realistic characters but it's VERY difficult to use once you want to move away from using the default figures and the associated explosion of dropdown menus and hierarchies is enough to cause an instant migraine.

For now, I'm only using Artoonix as a movie-editor with those imported guitar demos. It does this job well but is so Slooooooooow when importing or subsequently editing them that I generally set it working and then go and do something else. But, to be fair, I do realise that I'm probably taking the program into areas for which it was never really designed and the mere fact that it does the job at all is testimony enough to its usefulness.
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ev



Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 54
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: file management Reply with quote
Thanx for the link- will check it out
Hey, KayNine
don't give yourself short-shrift with perceived artistic in-abilities.
Maybe you can't draw like a Walt Disney Imagineer, but I have seen plenty of great cartoons hand drawn "pretty raw" lookin', but fabulous- not to mention the South Parks and Aqua Teen Hunger Force types!
I certainly consider you an artist.
EV
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